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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Call&#8221; of God</title>
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		<title>By: Josh R</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-255</guid>
		<description>I think we are pretty close to agreed.  I would just add that I think God provides a specific plan for people, it&#039;s just big enough and smart enough to encompass goof up&#039;s like me.  While yes,  a common ground to stand on is &quot;to be people of love&quot; I think God&#039;s will for us to live that out in a way we are gifted for, not just any ol&#039; way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we are pretty close to agreed.  I would just add that I think God provides a specific plan for people, it&#8217;s just big enough and smart enough to encompass goof up&#8217;s like me.  While yes,  a common ground to stand on is &#8220;to be people of love&#8221; I think God&#8217;s will for us to live that out in a way we are gifted for, not just any ol&#8217; way.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-252</guid>
		<description>@Josh R: Thanks pal!  Okay, I think we basically agree because when you wrote your alternative &quot;camp #2&quot; description I think it lines up pretty smoothly with a few sentences from my final paragraph where I wrote, &quot;on the upside I’m no longer stressed about finding God’s call for my life because from a big picture perspective I feel like I know what it is. It’s the same thing God has called all of us to: love.&quot;  Basically, I think we&#039;re saying that God&#039;s will is for us to be people of love whether we&#039;re parents, spouses, employees, or whatever.  Agreed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Josh R: Thanks pal!  Okay, I think we basically agree because when you wrote your alternative &#8220;camp #2&#8243; description I think it lines up pretty smoothly with a few sentences from my final paragraph where I wrote, &#8220;on the upside I’m no longer stressed about finding God’s call for my life because from a big picture perspective I feel like I know what it is. It’s the same thing God has called all of us to: love.&#8221;  Basically, I think we&#8217;re saying that God&#8217;s will is for us to be people of love whether we&#8217;re parents, spouses, employees, or whatever.  Agreed?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh R</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 04:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-247</guid>
		<description>Hey Man, great post!  And I would definitely agree with Josiah, that your ability to articulate such a long and treacherous journey in a few meaningful paragraphs is nothing short of greatness. 

I do think that Christians (we) can get caught in a kind of prideful blindness to following God&#039;s will that we refuse to self examine our own motives for doing what we are doing.  If the motive for doing or living in the center of God&#039;s will is for our own comfort or so we feel better about what we are doing, then in that action we are not giving God the glory or acting out of love for Him and others.  

My only critique is this:

The description of camp #2 is a bit ridiculous.  What I meant by this is: when you believe in God having a plan for our lives, you also believe God is big enough and smart enough to adapt to our calamities, which screw up the plan.  That the &quot;plan&quot; is not this narrow, unchanging thing.  
One great example is the whole marriage deal.  That there is one specific person each one us.  Now this is really silly, because if one person marries incorrectly, then that screws it up tons of others.  B/c If I marry wrong that means the person who was going to marry me, will marry wrong and so on and so forth.  

What i would suggest is widening the lenses through which we are viewing/defining &quot;the Will of God&quot;

Because while I personally relate more to your own experience and feel that I have felt similar frustrations, stress, and confusion over whether or not I am in God&#039;s will:
However,
  If I chose to take on the whole &quot;God&#039;s Call&quot; on my life approach, I can definitely look back and see that He guided and prepared me all along the way.  And at times I missed the leading, tried something new or decided to do what I wanted to do, and the result was misery and wondering what I was doing and wondering was I in God&#039;s will.  But if I&#039;m honest, during those times I know I was not where I was supposed to be, but the beauty is the world kept spinning and God was still there and good enough to adjust &quot;the plan&quot;.

In closing, I would submit that Camp #2 could sound more like this:
God has a calling on your life: to be doing a certain kind of work (based on talent and gifting), in a certain kind of way, all the while remembering who really is the Master.
God has a calling on your life to be married, and to be a specific kind of spouse and to do a general kind of work through that relationship that loves others.
To be a parent: but in a different way than most anyone else.
Even within the church Paul tells us we will fulfill different roles and purposes, but they are still specific to that person.  

Last thought for real, for real:
As I end this, the thought that I could have been teacher is a very real possibility and I think my life would be just as awesome, b/c I think that would still be in line with my talent&#039;s and give me just as much opportunity to love others, and God&#039;s plan i still big enough and He is still good enough not to strike me dead for wandering off the beaten path.  
Thanks again for the post and for listening,
Josh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Man, great post!  And I would definitely agree with Josiah, that your ability to articulate such a long and treacherous journey in a few meaningful paragraphs is nothing short of greatness. </p>
<p>I do think that Christians (we) can get caught in a kind of prideful blindness to following God&#8217;s will that we refuse to self examine our own motives for doing what we are doing.  If the motive for doing or living in the center of God&#8217;s will is for our own comfort or so we feel better about what we are doing, then in that action we are not giving God the glory or acting out of love for Him and others.  </p>
<p>My only critique is this:</p>
<p>The description of camp #2 is a bit ridiculous.  What I meant by this is: when you believe in God having a plan for our lives, you also believe God is big enough and smart enough to adapt to our calamities, which screw up the plan.  That the &#8220;plan&#8221; is not this narrow, unchanging thing.<br />
One great example is the whole marriage deal.  That there is one specific person each one us.  Now this is really silly, because if one person marries incorrectly, then that screws it up tons of others.  B/c If I marry wrong that means the person who was going to marry me, will marry wrong and so on and so forth.  </p>
<p>What i would suggest is widening the lenses through which we are viewing/defining &#8220;the Will of God&#8221;</p>
<p>Because while I personally relate more to your own experience and feel that I have felt similar frustrations, stress, and confusion over whether or not I am in God&#8217;s will:<br />
However,<br />
  If I chose to take on the whole &#8220;God&#8217;s Call&#8221; on my life approach, I can definitely look back and see that He guided and prepared me all along the way.  And at times I missed the leading, tried something new or decided to do what I wanted to do, and the result was misery and wondering what I was doing and wondering was I in God&#8217;s will.  But if I&#8217;m honest, during those times I know I was not where I was supposed to be, but the beauty is the world kept spinning and God was still there and good enough to adjust &#8220;the plan&#8221;.</p>
<p>In closing, I would submit that Camp #2 could sound more like this:<br />
God has a calling on your life: to be doing a certain kind of work (based on talent and gifting), in a certain kind of way, all the while remembering who really is the Master.<br />
God has a calling on your life to be married, and to be a specific kind of spouse and to do a general kind of work through that relationship that loves others.<br />
To be a parent: but in a different way than most anyone else.<br />
Even within the church Paul tells us we will fulfill different roles and purposes, but they are still specific to that person.  </p>
<p>Last thought for real, for real:<br />
As I end this, the thought that I could have been teacher is a very real possibility and I think my life would be just as awesome, b/c I think that would still be in line with my talent&#8217;s and give me just as much opportunity to love others, and God&#8217;s plan i still big enough and He is still good enough not to strike me dead for wandering off the beaten path.<br />
Thanks again for the post and for listening,<br />
Josh</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 17:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-246</guid>
		<description>@Josiah: Thanks so much. You&#039;re right about it being a long and treacherous journey.  I hear what you&#039;re saying about being settled on the idea that God has foreknowledge of all your future actions.  It sounds like we both agree though that at the end of the day we&#039;re forced to live in the gray area of not knowing exactly what his will is and simply doing our best to remain faithful. 

@Lance: It&#039;s a dilemma isn&#039;t it? haha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Josiah: Thanks so much. You&#8217;re right about it being a long and treacherous journey.  I hear what you&#8217;re saying about being settled on the idea that God has foreknowledge of all your future actions.  It sounds like we both agree though that at the end of the day we&#8217;re forced to live in the gray area of not knowing exactly what his will is and simply doing our best to remain faithful. </p>
<p>@Lance: It&#8217;s a dilemma isn&#8217;t it? haha</p>
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		<title>By: lance</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-242</guid>
		<description>@Brett - if you&#039;re going to make me Choose...I choose Destiny.  wait...I guess it really wasn&#039;t a choice :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brett &#8211; if you&#8217;re going to make me Choose&#8230;I choose Destiny.  wait&#8230;I guess it really wasn&#8217;t a choice <img src='http://bretttilford.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: lance</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-241</guid>
		<description>@Josiah - Agreed.  I was primarily talking about those day to day, life decisions.  There is plenty of instruction on loving others, no one perishing, and many other words in the Scripture to let us know God&#039;s will for mankind.  But I&#039;ve seen so many people Worry (fret and fear), over making the wrong choices in what job to take, or where to live, where to worship, etc.  Those types of life choices, I just feel we needn&#039;t worry so much.  But submit them to God, call them out in prayer, and then walk in faith (not fear).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Josiah &#8211; Agreed.  I was primarily talking about those day to day, life decisions.  There is plenty of instruction on loving others, no one perishing, and many other words in the Scripture to let us know God&#8217;s will for mankind.  But I&#8217;ve seen so many people Worry (fret and fear), over making the wrong choices in what job to take, or where to live, where to worship, etc.  Those types of life choices, I just feel we needn&#8217;t worry so much.  But submit them to God, call them out in prayer, and then walk in faith (not fear).</p>
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		<title>By: Josiah Platt</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Josiah Platt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-240</guid>
		<description>Man Brett, this is huge. I really loved the read, and knowing you, I think I have a little understanding on just how intense a process this has been for you.

I get an image of you walking a treacherous precipice in your heart.

I&#039;m also impressed at how long a journey you were able to communicate in such a short post. You should think about writing a book on this subject. It has the potential to change lives.

My take:

I think I have come to grips with accepting the fact that God knows everything I&#039;m ever going to do. (&quot;For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren;&quot;).

I&#039;ve decided to read that and assume it means that God saw me from the beginning, identified me in the course of history as one of the people born into a family or place that would allow me the knowledge of His Word during my life, and &quot;called it out&quot; for what it is. 

Kind of a &quot;that&#039;s my boy&quot; moment.

I try to let it stay there. I heard in a sermon on predestination that a pastor was making a decision, and that he was experiencing some major confusion. He prayed, &quot;God, I&#039;m going, I hope you come with me.&quot;

I think your perspective on love is 100% correct, and I think that what James wrote, &quot;Draw near to the Lord and He will draw near to you,&quot; fairly accurately sums up how I feel about being in the &quot;center&quot; of God&#039;s will. 

I like to think of the pursuit of His will as more of a pursuit after proximity to Him and what He&#039;s about, rather than a pursuit of some sort of theological or spiritual perfection in life.

@lance - I don&#039;t agree with you on the &quot;I needn’t worry about God’s Will&quot; business. I think the more we understand what the Word says of who God is, and what His purposes are, the more accurately we can live life that &quot;reflects&quot; His love.

I&#039;m not saying I have some exclusive perspective on God&#039;s will; just that I think it&#039;s likely one of the most important pieces of my faith. I don&#039;t want to toss it out just because I don&#039;t know what God&#039;s absolute best may be for a particular situation. 

I think we can likely look to the Garden of Eden for a good image of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man Brett, this is huge. I really loved the read, and knowing you, I think I have a little understanding on just how intense a process this has been for you.</p>
<p>I get an image of you walking a treacherous precipice in your heart.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also impressed at how long a journey you were able to communicate in such a short post. You should think about writing a book on this subject. It has the potential to change lives.</p>
<p>My take:</p>
<p>I think I have come to grips with accepting the fact that God knows everything I&#8217;m ever going to do. (&#8220;For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren;&#8221;).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve decided to read that and assume it means that God saw me from the beginning, identified me in the course of history as one of the people born into a family or place that would allow me the knowledge of His Word during my life, and &#8220;called it out&#8221; for what it is. </p>
<p>Kind of a &#8220;that&#8217;s my boy&#8221; moment.</p>
<p>I try to let it stay there. I heard in a sermon on predestination that a pastor was making a decision, and that he was experiencing some major confusion. He prayed, &#8220;God, I&#8217;m going, I hope you come with me.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think your perspective on love is 100% correct, and I think that what James wrote, &#8220;Draw near to the Lord and He will draw near to you,&#8221; fairly accurately sums up how I feel about being in the &#8220;center&#8221; of God&#8217;s will. </p>
<p>I like to think of the pursuit of His will as more of a pursuit after proximity to Him and what He&#8217;s about, rather than a pursuit of some sort of theological or spiritual perfection in life.</p>
<p>@lance &#8211; I don&#8217;t agree with you on the &#8220;I needn’t worry about God’s Will&#8221; business. I think the more we understand what the Word says of who God is, and what His purposes are, the more accurately we can live life that &#8220;reflects&#8221; His love.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying I have some exclusive perspective on God&#8217;s will; just that I think it&#8217;s likely one of the most important pieces of my faith. I don&#8217;t want to toss it out just because I don&#8217;t know what God&#8217;s absolute best may be for a particular situation. </p>
<p>I think we can likely look to the Garden of Eden for a good image of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Tilford</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Tilford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-239</guid>
		<description>@Lance: Thanks for chiming in man. I hear what you&#039;re saying about the &quot;destiny and free will.&quot;  Obviously, God isn&#039;t bound by logic or reason but it does seem a bit of a strange leap to say &quot;both and&quot; while the two are logically incompatible. I&#039;m taking a course in philosophy right now so maybe that&#039;s why I&#039;m being a bit more stubborn on this point than usual.  Ultimately, though it sounds like in practice we are living in similar ways even if we&#039;re getting there by different paths. Thanks again!

@Debbie: I totally agree with your statement, &quot;anytime we are walking in LOVE we are smack dab in the center of God’s Will&quot;. Great insight.  However, I wasn&#039;t quite sure what you meant by &quot;the way the world loves&quot;. If God is love, then can there be love apart from him?  Thanks for jumping into the convo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lance: Thanks for chiming in man. I hear what you&#8217;re saying about the &#8220;destiny and free will.&#8221;  Obviously, God isn&#8217;t bound by logic or reason but it does seem a bit of a strange leap to say &#8220;both and&#8221; while the two are logically incompatible. I&#8217;m taking a course in philosophy right now so maybe that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m being a bit more stubborn on this point than usual.  Ultimately, though it sounds like in practice we are living in similar ways even if we&#8217;re getting there by different paths. Thanks again!</p>
<p>@Debbie: I totally agree with your statement, &#8220;anytime we are walking in LOVE we are smack dab in the center of God’s Will&#8221;. Great insight.  However, I wasn&#8217;t quite sure what you meant by &#8220;the way the world loves&#8221;. If God is love, then can there be love apart from him?  Thanks for jumping into the convo!</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-238</guid>
		<description>I am of the belief that you can take two complete strangers and marry them and IF they show God&#039;s Love to one another and put into practice the truths of the Bible...they will have a successful marriage.

As believers we should always be seeking after the Lord.  The Bible does say to trust the Lord with all our heart, lean not on our own understanding, acknowledge Him in all we do and He will direct our steps.  

But to stress over every little thing and wonder if we are in the center of God&#039;s Will....that is a distraction from the &quot;other camp&quot;...our enemy.  I agree with your conclusion and the older I become the more I am understanding it...LOVE....LOVE...LOVE...anytime we are walking in LOVE we are smack dab in the center of God&#039;s Will....no matter where we are or who we are with or what we are driving.  

Now...if only we can understand what it means to love with God&#039;s love...rather than the way the world loves...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am of the belief that you can take two complete strangers and marry them and IF they show God&#8217;s Love to one another and put into practice the truths of the Bible&#8230;they will have a successful marriage.</p>
<p>As believers we should always be seeking after the Lord.  The Bible does say to trust the Lord with all our heart, lean not on our own understanding, acknowledge Him in all we do and He will direct our steps.  </p>
<p>But to stress over every little thing and wonder if we are in the center of God&#8217;s Will&#8230;.that is a distraction from the &#8220;other camp&#8221;&#8230;our enemy.  I agree with your conclusion and the older I become the more I am understanding it&#8230;LOVE&#8230;.LOVE&#8230;LOVE&#8230;anytime we are walking in LOVE we are smack dab in the center of God&#8217;s Will&#8230;.no matter where we are or who we are with or what we are driving.  </p>
<p>Now&#8230;if only we can understand what it means to love with God&#8217;s love&#8230;rather than the way the world loves&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: lance</title>
		<link>http://bretttilford.com/2010/06/the-ever-elusive-call-of-god/comment-page-1/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bretttilford.com/?p=133#comment-237</guid>
		<description>I know it&#039;s unpopular in most circles, but I personally found peace on this very topic, within the Reformed Theology camp.  Perhaps that would represent a 3rd camp?  I&#039;m settled in the fact that God is all-knowing and all-powerful.  I can aknowledge Him in all my decisions and He will provide the direction.  I needn&#039;t worry about God&#039;s Will.  I simply place my life in His hands and remain in a place of submission (maybe my way or representing self-examination).  Unless God tells me to wait, I&#039;m the person that is also making moves.  I still have to get up and not be lazy or paralyzed with fear of making the wrong choices, but rather make choices with the strength and sense God has given in Faith that He will accomplish His will.  In the words of the recently cancelled FlashFoward, &quot;It&#039;s Destiny AND Free Will.&quot;  Maybe they are not as mutually exclusive as we think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it&#8217;s unpopular in most circles, but I personally found peace on this very topic, within the Reformed Theology camp.  Perhaps that would represent a 3rd camp?  I&#8217;m settled in the fact that God is all-knowing and all-powerful.  I can aknowledge Him in all my decisions and He will provide the direction.  I needn&#8217;t worry about God&#8217;s Will.  I simply place my life in His hands and remain in a place of submission (maybe my way or representing self-examination).  Unless God tells me to wait, I&#8217;m the person that is also making moves.  I still have to get up and not be lazy or paralyzed with fear of making the wrong choices, but rather make choices with the strength and sense God has given in Faith that He will accomplish His will.  In the words of the recently cancelled FlashFoward, &#8220;It&#8217;s Destiny AND Free Will.&#8221;  Maybe they are not as mutually exclusive as we think?</p>
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