Comments on: Can Christians Have Money? http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/ business. technology. theology. let's discuss... Sat, 14 Jan 2012 07:43:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: David http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-328 David Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:27:32 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-328 I scanned the whole article. I smiled when I read, "...I’m wondering how much money a Christian keep for himself and..." Well written over-all. If the person who wrote this actually reads these comments, I'd really like him to send me documentation on his John Wesley's comments. I've read other articles that claim his wealth translated to over a million dollars (was that yearly?) today & they said nothing about him giving it away. I was raised in the Wesleyan church and have developed a number of concerns about this denomination. I would be very interested in where you got the information or if it's just hear-say. About Billy Graham, he and his family lived VERY VERY comfortable lives and I have very little doubt they suffered at ALL financially once his ministry was up and running. Have you seen Graham's housing "allowance?" What common man gets a "housing allowance??" Bottom line: 98% of all Christians would deny themselves and their family money and the security thereof. They would work it out in their mind how to justify it against the Bible and their consciences. I scanned the whole article. I smiled when I read, “…I’m wondering how much money a Christian keep for himself and…” Well written over-all. If the person who wrote this actually reads these comments, I’d really like him to send me documentation on his John Wesley’s comments. I’ve read other articles that claim his wealth translated to over a million dollars (was that yearly?) today & they said nothing about him giving it away. I was raised in the Wesleyan church and have developed a number of concerns about this denomination. I would be very interested in where you got the information or if it’s just hear-say.

About Billy Graham, he and his family lived VERY VERY comfortable lives and I have very little doubt they suffered at ALL financially once his ministry was up and running. Have you seen Graham’s housing “allowance?” What common man gets a “housing allowance??”

Bottom line: 98% of all Christians would deny themselves and their family money and the security thereof. They would work it out in their mind how to justify it against the Bible and their consciences.

]]> By: brandi http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-192 brandi Sun, 11 Apr 2010 05:28:13 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-192 I really have enjoyed reading all these commments, since many of the questions asked are the same I ponder myself. The realization that have come to so far is that it really is an issue of the heart. God tells us to be cheerful givers. That tells me that the question should not be how much do I "have" to give, but rather, "Lord how much do you want me to give." Be willing to move when He says. The standard is 10%, and as He increases us, we need to be willing to give more than the minimum. Listen to your heart. The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. Let Him guide you in your giving beyond your tithe. I think that if a person is struggling in their faith to even do the basics of tithing, then that is an area that definitely needs growth. If you are obey God in how to manage your finances, then rejoice when he blesses you and do not condemn yourself for enjoying! We are children of the King! He desires to bless His children even more so than we desire to bless our own! Chances are if you are examining this area of your life, then your heart is in tune with God...I think it is good to daily examine our hearts, so no root of sin can take place. I really have enjoyed reading all these commments, since many of the questions asked are the same I ponder myself. The realization that have come to so far is that it really is an issue of the heart. God tells us to be cheerful givers. That tells me that the question should not be how much do I “have” to give, but rather, “Lord how much do you want me to give.” Be willing to move when He says. The standard is 10%, and as He increases us, we need to be willing to give more than the minimum.
Listen to your heart. The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. Let Him guide you in your giving beyond your tithe. I think that if a person is struggling in their faith to even do the basics of tithing, then that is an area that definitely needs growth.
If you are obey God in how to manage your finances, then rejoice when he blesses you and do not condemn yourself for enjoying! We are children of the King! He desires to bless His children even more so than we desire to bless our own!
Chances are if you are examining this area of your life, then your heart is in tune with God…I think it is good to daily examine our hearts, so no root of sin can take place.

]]> By: Daniel Bryant http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-129 Daniel Bryant Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:46:09 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-129 There are lots of different angles to look at this. I don't have much time so I'll make this brief. Being under Christ, we're under a new covenant, and free of the standard of the tithe. But if God gave those before Christ the standard of the tithe, how much more would he expect from us rather than the same or less? I see the 10% as a beginning, almost like training wheels, that taught me to begin giving away what God has blessed me with. Since then, a couple key passages come to mind. I love Paul's point he makes in 2 Corinthians Ch 8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20cor%208-9&version=NIV but more precisely 2 Cor 9.11-15: "You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God. 12This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God's people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!" I have been made rich to be generous on every occasion. And God wants us to be a cheerful giver. The truth is that we can always sacrifice more for God. Now, is me sacrificing more for other people close to God's heart? This passage doesn't feel like Paul is trying to kick us in the face and guilt us into anything, rather, he's encouraging us of what God will do through us and for us when we give generously. I love this. There are lots of different angles to look at this. I don’t have much time so I’ll make this brief.

Being under Christ, we’re under a new covenant, and free of the standard of the tithe. But if God gave those before Christ the standard of the tithe, how much more would he expect from us rather than the same or less?

I see the 10% as a beginning, almost like training wheels, that taught me to begin giving away what God has blessed me with. Since then, a couple key passages come to mind.

I love Paul’s point he makes in 2 Corinthians Ch 8-9
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20cor%208-9&version=NIV

but more precisely 2 Cor 9.11-15:
“You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

12This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!”

I have been made rich to be generous on every occasion. And God wants us to be a cheerful giver. The truth is that we can always sacrifice more for God. Now, is me sacrificing more for other people close to God’s heart?

This passage doesn’t feel like Paul is trying to kick us in the face and guilt us into anything, rather, he’s encouraging us of what God will do through us and for us when we give generously. I love this.

]]> By: Brett http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-124 Brett Sun, 10 Jan 2010 05:35:51 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-124 Thanks for sharing Brandon. I agree that God calls us to be good stewards, I'm just wondering if that's a more radical call than we realize. As for South Africa I'm not really following your logic there. I'm not talking about giving the government money. I'm talking about making a donation directly to organizations like Ten Thousand Homes (tenthousandhomes.org). While I think it's great to be patriotic about the U.S.A. the reality for any Christian (biblically speaking) is that we're all brothers and sisters - correct? So whether it's South Africa, Mexico, or the U.S. we're called to be kingdom citizens first. Thanks for sharing Brandon. I agree that God calls us to be good stewards, I’m just wondering if that’s a more radical call than we realize. As for South Africa I’m not really following your logic there. I’m not talking about giving the government money. I’m talking about making a donation directly to organizations like Ten Thousand Homes (tenthousandhomes.org). While I think it’s great to be patriotic about the U.S.A. the reality for any Christian (biblically speaking) is that we’re all brothers and sisters – correct? So whether it’s South Africa, Mexico, or the U.S. we’re called to be kingdom citizens first.

]]> By: Brandon http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-121 Brandon Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:44:27 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-121 Okay, so I have every intention of being as wealthy as I can be. I agree that one should be generous (and I am talking more the the 10%) when one has the means, however, I don't think you should feel bad for putting money away towards, retirement, college/car funds for our children or even vacations. I know the bible says to not worry about tomorrow, but does that mean we shouldn't be responsible with the things we are given (to include money). Doesn't the bible also say to be good stewards? Now I am going to touch on the South Africa comment... ...why am I going to send more money to a country... ...and a continent that has received more money then any other and they still have the same problems they have had for ages. Corrupt government who doesn't properly funnel the money to those who need it. (insert Rabbit trail) I am not also one who likes to give some homeless guy some money, more then likely he is giong to shoot it into his/her arm or drink it down so why bother. How about we ask what he needs and buy him that meal, or coat, or even that hotel/motel room for the night. Anyways, where was I? Oh yeah, why give money to another country when there are many who need a hand up here? Finally, I dont' think there is anything with creating wealth for yourself so long as you remember at the end of the day that it isn't yours, so if God calls you to build a house for someone do it! if he ask you to get your neighbor some groceries, do that! Just my thoughts Okay, so I have every intention of being as wealthy as I can be. I agree that one should be generous (and I am talking more the the 10%) when one has the means, however, I don’t think you should feel bad for putting money away towards, retirement, college/car funds for our children or even vacations. I know the bible says to not worry about tomorrow, but does that mean we shouldn’t be responsible with the things we are given (to include money). Doesn’t the bible also say to be good stewards?

Now I am going to touch on the South Africa comment… …why am I going to send more money to a country… …and a continent that has received more money then any other and they still have the same problems they have had for ages. Corrupt government who doesn’t properly funnel the money to those who need it.

(insert Rabbit trail) I am not also one who likes to give some homeless guy some money, more then likely he is giong to shoot it into his/her arm or drink it down so why bother. How about we ask what he needs and buy him that meal, or coat, or even that hotel/motel room for the night.

Anyways, where was I? Oh yeah, why give money to another country when there are many who need a hand up here?

Finally, I dont’ think there is anything with creating wealth for yourself so long as you remember at the end of the day that it isn’t yours, so if God calls you to build a house for someone do it! if he ask you to get your neighbor some groceries, do that!

Just my thoughts

]]> By: Kyle B. http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-113 Kyle B. Sat, 02 Jan 2010 02:30:05 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-113 Finishing up my last semester in Chicago. Then I'll be doing an internship here in Houston. Finishing up my last semester in Chicago. Then I’ll be doing an internship here in Houston.

]]> By: Brett http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-111 Brett Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:38:52 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-111 Hey Josh, Its cool that you're thinking this stuff through. I'm glad to have someone to journey with as we wrestle through this stuff. Maybe we flip a coin to see who takes a vow of poverty and who becomes rich. That way the poor guy always has a rich friend to bail him out. Kyle, thanks for the book suggestions. I've definately heard of the first one but not the second. I'll try to get my hands on both! Are you still in Chicago? Where are you with school? Hey Josh, Its cool that you’re thinking this stuff through. I’m glad to have someone to journey with as we wrestle through this
stuff. Maybe we flip a coin to see who takes a vow of poverty and who becomes rich. That way the poor guy always has a rich friend to bail him out.

Kyle, thanks for the book suggestions. I’ve definately heard of the first one but not the second. I’ll try to get my hands on both! Are you still in Chicago? Where are you with school?

]]> By: Kyle B. http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-110 Kyle B. Fri, 01 Jan 2010 04:08:26 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-110 Hey Brett, long time no talk. There are two books floating about, and the author of each one is writing against the other. I forget the men's names, but I do remember the book titles. The first book is called, "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger". The second is, "Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt-Manipulators." I intend to read both of them (as if I don't have a big enough to-do list) because, like you, the issue of money has me completely flabbergasted. If the titles intrigue you, maybe you could track one down, time permitting. Hey Brett, long time no talk.

There are two books floating about, and the author of each one is writing against the other. I forget the men’s names, but I do remember the book titles. The first book is called, “Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger”. The second is, “Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt-Manipulators.”

I intend to read both of them (as if I don’t have a big enough to-do list) because, like you, the issue of money has me completely flabbergasted. If the titles intrigue you, maybe you could track one down, time permitting.

]]> By: Josh R http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-108 Josh R Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:35:52 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-108 Brett, i've been struggling with this for a while as well. As you know, I like expensive stuff, it's stupid really. I am willing to spend a more money if it means getting exactly what I, my wife, family or friends really want. But honestly what do i need a new couch, or a new TV for? In my head I say "well, we host a lot of people a lot of the time, so it's ok to spend more money on a big tv, a nice couch, a ps3? But is it really ok? I do feel that MIndie ( my wife) and I have been really good at giving financially and meeting needs when they come up, but I know we are called to living sacrificially and I am just not sure where that line is. And I need to figure something out, b/c with my business partner (carldorvil.com) I am pretty sure that money isn't going to be an issue any time soon :) at least I pray that's God plan. Brett, i’ve been struggling with this for a while as well. As you know, I like expensive stuff, it’s stupid really. I am willing to spend a more money if it means getting exactly what I, my wife, family or friends really want. But honestly what do i need a new couch, or a new TV for? In my head I say “well, we host a lot of people a lot of the time, so it’s ok to spend more money on a big tv, a nice couch, a ps3? But is it really ok?

I do feel that MIndie ( my wife) and I have been really good at giving financially and meeting needs when they come up, but I know we are called to living sacrificially and I am just not sure where that line is.

And I need to figure something out, b/c with my business partner (carldorvil.com) I am pretty sure that money isn’t going to be an issue any time soon :) at least I pray that’s God plan.

]]> By: Brett http://bretttilford.com/2009/12/can-christians-have-money/comment-page-1/#comment-106 Brett Wed, 30 Dec 2009 06:58:03 +0000 http://bretttilford.com/?p=16#comment-106 Alan, thanks for sharing your perspective man! I agree with your closing though about God asking us to give an account of each penny spent. Also, I agree that it's good practice to buy quality things that you need. It's figuring out the line between the wants and needs that's tripping me up. Thanks again! Alan, thanks for sharing your perspective man! I agree with your closing though about God asking us to give an account of each penny spent. Also, I agree that it’s good practice to buy quality things that you need. It’s figuring out the line between the wants and needs that’s tripping me up. Thanks again!

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